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No business is too small to be hacked!

Our CEO Yashmita Bhana recently joined Jaco Voigt from Catalytic on to discuss the business imperative of cyber security.

Here’s the conversation with Yashmita and Jaco.


Jaco 0:00
I’m Jaco Voigt, the CEO of catalytic and this is unbundled. In a series I help to demystify technology in the world of business. Join me as we explore how technology can make your business better. In this episode, we chatting about cybersecurity. We chatting about shortcomings in companies cyber strategy we’re doing we’re also talking about what company should expect from the cybersecurity deployment, and what companies can do to enhance the security environment. By the end of this episode, you will have a clearer idea of our AI again in orange, your cybersecurity. I’m joined by Amitabh banner from the CEO of Nika technologies, UPS Shmita. Welcome.

Yashmita 0:41
Thank you so much. I appreciate you having me. Thank you. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah, so first of all, I’m the CEO of the Nika technology group, I think I define myself as an entrepreneur before I even define myself as a mother, to be honest, yeah. We’ve been in business for over 14 years now, having moved from many services, analytics, and now one of our big service offerings is cybersecurity.

Jaco 1:06
Okay, excellent. So then, so then let’s jump in straight to that. So what is cybersecurity mean, in your world?

Yashmita 1:14
Cyber security, I think we need to demystify what it means, you know, for me, it really is putting down some tech, some processes, some measures in place to make sure that your networks, your appliances, your cloud, everything is secure. You know, it’s it’s a, it’s a way to ensure that hackers that malicious hackers actually, because we need to distinguish between the two types of hackers, ethical and unethical, is not able to get into your security posture of your organization. So on a basic level, that’s what it is.

Jaco 1:45
So, so you know, we operate a lot in small to medium enterprise space. And I think there’s a, if you if you’re a business owner, or entrepreneur, or not in the tech space, it’s very hard to keep up with technology. So so that was this IT guy that I talked about. And there’s still a lot of perception, if I’ve got antivirus on my, on my PC or my laptop, then I’m okay.

Yashmita 2:13
And you know, how I mean, I like to get back to how significant small to medium businesses are in South Africa. I mean, I think the number is something like 47% of the workforce is SMEs 20%, I think 21% We contribute to the GDP of the country, that’s a significant portion. And no matter how big or small you are, your data is an important driver of your business. It’s a business imperative. So whether you’re a SME or a large corporate, you need to have that awareness of how important your data is. If you look at a large organization, like a bank, we recently looked at a bank, they have over 100 security products. Now think about that. Anything between 15 and 100 security products to protect your environment, that’s a significant amount that you need to put in antivirus is maybe just one of what you need. And the biggest thing I think we forget is social engineering. And social engineering is us as human beings, being able to be manipulated to do certain things. So if you look at hackers, now, if you look at what happened at Transnet, and the 38 other entities that were hacked in August, just in South Africa alone, a lot in August, just in just in August that we know about that we know about Yes, I mean, South Africa is the 38th most hacked country in the world out of 196 countries with very high update in terms of vulnerabilities. So if you look at social engineering as an issue, what hackers do is they, they they troll the web, I mean, I was contacted by the Illuminati in lucky me I was contacted by it, is that good or bad? I’m not sure. So what they did was, they obviously troll the web and say, here’s a potential high net worth individual. And then they spend a story and that’s where the hook comes in. And they said, you know, we can potentially put you in this elite club and get into this billionaire, whatever, and so on, and then click on this link, and that’s playing on somebody’s emotions. And that’s the biggest risk we have is social engineering because people moved by emotion.

Jaco 4:30
Yes, yeah. Okay. So in the in the security space, if we if we talk about the environment, the perception that antivirus and maybe a firewall is gonna is gonna protect you is a misnomer because the packets are the the people that want your money. Let’s let’s be real about mostly why people do it. They’ve got to find ways, ways around it. So I’ve got to find a mechanism where I can get To let them in if I can, if I can, say like that. Yeah.

Yashmita 5:05
And I mean, if you think about the, the internet, we were just talking about the web, there really is three internet’s I mean, there’s the surface internet that you and I know. And it’s easily found through Google or whatever search engine you have, then you have the deep internet, or I call it the deep web. And that’s anything behind a firewall, or anything that you can get through via, say, password protection. And you know, that’s typically an intranet, you know, but then you have the deep dark web. And that’s where you have these guys sitting continuously thinking about how they can get into your environment into your networks. So just having a simple antivirus is not going to help you just help in a simple firewall is not going to help you. The other issue we set with Jaco is, I saw a scary stat the other day, we have a shortage of 3 million security, cybersecurity consultants, 3 million worldwide. That and the problem with that is as fast as we spewing out in training these guys, is as fast as the unethical hackers are finding ways to to hack. So you may never get up, you probably never gonna catch arms. So which means you need something a little bit smarter, you need AI, you need a machine learning to be able to take away the mundane job of what a security analyst would do, you know,

Jaco 6:26
So, and before, before we move on to my next question, I think the the, probably the one of the biggest misnomers that that I encounter on a day to day basis, coming back to the SME world, is that people think because I’m an SME, who’s gonna, who’s gonna want to ask me, you know, everybody, the minute they think about security, they think about the banks and stuff like that. But they keep on saying, Oh, but no, I’m a small accounting firm who’s gonna want to ask me, but, you know, we, we know that you can even pay ransomware in in a bit of a Bitcoin or something like that. So it’s a it’s an enterprise, that one that want to take your money and any bit of money, you know,

Yashmita 7:12
And I always like to anything we do in our company, we we like to thread it through to a social impact. You know, that’s, like vitally important. It’s the thread that runs through our company, think about what’s happened at Justice now, for instance, where they were hacked, and I believe their systems are still not up and running as it should be. But the the social impact that you have with that is just that it’s not that somebody has your data or that they’re going to, they want to sell your data for Bitcoin or for cash. It’s that there’s a gauger, somewhere sitting, that that isn’t able to claim what she can claim because the data is now breached. So the impact that these things have is just not monetary, there’s a huge social impact that we need to consider what all the hacking that that we’re currently facing in in South Africa, especially.

Jaco 8:05
Okay, so let’s, so let’s move on into pre the AI discussion. What, when you start talking to a customer, what, what is it? What is your perception of what they really expect from the cybersecurity environment? And what I’m trying to get at is, do you think they understand what they should be wanting?

Yashmita 8:29
You know what, this is a few buzzwords, I think that they understand. So obviously, things like penetration testing, they understand what that is vulnerability scanning, perhaps they understand, but there are differences between the two. And then sort of larger organizations say we want a sock, we want a security operation center. But if we look at those three things, and what they are, I mean, vulnerability scanning is like almost a, I would say, a horizontal view of your organization. If I use an analogy, like this building that we’re sitting in now, we doing a scan of this building, and the window, that’s that’s across from us is a potential vulnerability, you know, we can there’s a potential whole year, the door is a bigger hole, because it’s open. Yeah, penetration testing for me is, is an intentional exploitation of the vulnerability. So

Jaco 9:23
Can we can we just go back to this vulnerability, vulnerability scanning, because I love your analogy. And it’s a it’s a, like you said, it’s a horizontal view at that snapshot in time. Yeah. So if you if you’ve done a vulnerability scan a year ago, and it said you’re gay, doesn’t mean you’re gay today.

Yashmita 9:41
It doesn’t mean you okay? And the same with penetration testing. Typically, customers would say, come in employers for penetration testing four times a year, but the day that you do the penetration testing the very next day, there’s probably something a Trojan horse released and an Bam, your systems are down. And then you have something like a sock, which is a security operation center. And what is that? I mean, that is security analysts deploying network devices, you know, privileged access management, anything to protect your, your environment, and then you have analysts sitting there 24 hours a day on a rotation basis, looking at all these logs, trying to understand these logs. And then you’ll have hundreds and hundreds of false positives, because you could have alerts coming in for the same issue countless times. So think about the masses and masses of data that is generated by the SOC. So you need a way to simplify all of that and make it easy and take away the need for somebody having to analyze all of this,

Jaco 10:49
Well, if we, if we go back to the to the small business example. Where is we, we I spend most of my time and I think you Well, you’ve got a big mix. But small business simply cannot afford or doesn’t have the bandwidth, or the or the finances to have a security operation center running with people in it sitting looking at it. And quite frankly, I always use my small business example is I run a accounting firm, I’m, you know, I need to finish people’s financials and ideal size and all that I don’t I don’t understand even what all of these security alerts what it means. So I need a mechanism to to give me peace of mind. But and, and that’s maybe also part of the gap in the market is we people almost don’t even investigate, you know, to optimize the cybersecurity environment, because they just think, wow, it’s too big and too expensive.

Yashmita 11:48
And it doesn’t need to be that way. I mean, they are tools coming back to the AI, they are very sophisticated tools that can be used that can do this for you. And at the same time, scan your environment to your penetration testing and give you a report in plain English that tells you this is where your holes are. And this is how you need to fill your hole.

Jaco 12:08
So I mean, you you made it real now with with a South African stat of 38 people just in all companies just in August. And like I said that we know about. So I’ve got some stats, and it’s American related. But I mean, we know like you say we said number 38 on the list. So so we the we can probably we can probably draw down. We saw that they said in 2021, the average cost of a data breach is now $4.24 million. So that’s the average cost. And, you know, that doesn’t matter if you Small Lodge that, that you know, that’s what it can cost you.

Yashmita 12:48
What is that cost made up of? Because that is not necessarily the ransom way. Yes. Probably the cost to find and remediated as well.

Jaco 12:56
Yes. Okay. And we actually want to jump into that. And then we’ve got what was interesting to me, they say the average cost of a healthcare breach is $9.23 million. So it’s more than double that of the normal thing. And and again, anybody in health care, you can be a GP or a dentist or whatever it actually, you might again, so you know, but you know, I just see patients who’s gonna want to join Acme, and you’re the stats tells us the cost of an incident like that is almost double

Yashmita 13:26
Unless you have organs to sell.

Jaco 13:33
And in, like they say, they also see the number of breaches are up 9% From from the previous year. And we know the work from home phenomenon has contributed to that. It’s just made the security landscape a lot more complicated. And they say the number of attack related compromises is up 27% from 2020. And it’s a phishing and Ransom way, are the two most predominant activities. So we we haven’t really touched on that. Can we talk about what phishing ransomware what what does it mean, if I’m now sitting in my accounting practice and listening to this?

Yashmita 14:15
So phishing? I mean, it’s really what it’s coming back to what I said earlier about social engineering. You know, it’s it’s those emails that we get on a daily basis to saying, you could have an email the other day, I got an email from Standard Bank that looked exactly like a Standard Bank email because I’m a Standard Bank client. But if you look really carefully, it said, standards bank, dot 0.0 Day and those little small little things is what they do in order to hook in Agile, yes. And they goes all your money out of your account. And that’s really what phishing is. And ransomware really basically mean it’s, it’s holding your data and your information. to rent some for some or other game, that’s really what it is. Those stats are so fascinating to me. I mean, one of the stats I saw the other day, which is quite interesting is IBM’s latest security report, I think it’s just been released, it takes something like 287 days to find and contain a data breach. And that’s an incredibly high number. That’s like nine months. So you could have some other Trojan horse running around in your environment, and you don’t even know everything looks normal. Yes, yes, that’s it. And I think that’s also where AI comes into play. Because the point of it is to be continuously monitoring your your network is really fascinating how breaches happen as well. I mean, it’s making me think your numbers day is also making me think about why it’s going up. It’s because mobile devices as well. And more and more vulnerable. I don’t know if you’ve recently seen the case about the LG Jazeera reporter and an activist, a Saudi activist, they found a Pegasus spyware on their phones, because obviously, I mean, the Saudi government was was, was doing what they doing. And that was on his mobile device. So there was some vulnerability in the iOS system, the Apple iOS system, and I think Apple has just recently released an update to fix that vulnerability. So think about mobile devices, any sort of endpoint devices, any endpoint device, you know, your, your, your air Konya could be connected to the internet, the most fascinating case I’ve seen is in the last two years, there was a casino somewhere in the state unnamed casino, and there was a thermostat in a fish tank that was connected to the internet. It’s the most fascinating case. And hackers were able to hack the thermostat, and fire the thermostat, extract data about high rollers at the casino, draw it up back into the cloud and use that information to target these high rollers. That is how, how clever how smart these hackers are. Think about your printers that’s connected, even a small business, think about your printers, your printers are connected to the internet, easily hackable. Think about your IP phones connected to the internet easily hackable. The printer case that we know about is these hackers were able to hack the printer and actually read off some of the work that was printed. So think about your confidential documents, especially if you’re in a legal profession.

Jaco 17:43
Well, I was listening to a podcast the other day on our North Korea maked. State Bank of of Pakistan and and that was why this printer some way in some back and it was a beautiful mix between the social engineering component and in the in the real art quarterbacking because they started on LinkedIn, this anonymous type person what while it is it’s obviously a persona but it wasn’t a real person, that person in applied for a job at the bank, there’s that and enact the printer on a public holiday when I knew nobody was gonna end in from the they basically gave an instruction to the reserve, the reserve, you know, the federal exchange in the states and say, drones for X amount of billion dollars or something like that. It’s just just fascinating to listen to. And what was interesting for me now in terms of how we speak, you know how we have different perceptions, we it’s understandable for people to say, if I’m on my PC, I can be hacked but but the mobile phone is something different. But it’s just just another computer. Yeah. And like you say, you know, we worry about my IT guy, my Tommy Oh, but you’ve got antivirus on your on your PC, although we know that’s not gonna help you for any of this stuff that we’re talking about. But the mobile phone, nobody worries about that.

Yashmita 19:14
You think about your home. I mean, apparently there’s 104 possible ways in which to hack your home. I mean, one of my guys come out the other day wrote a very funny post on LinkedIn about the smart airfryer because you can control some of these new smart air fryers via a cell phone. And he said something about something about some new cells or something I can’t quite remember but that is connected to your internet, your smart fridge, your smart electricity meter, every little thing that is connected to the internet is it’s an example it’s it’s mind boggling, but it’s also very fascinating for me,

Jaco 19:55
Very much so yeah. Okay, so now so so let’s talk about the AI or artificial component to that? What does that bring into the mix now because we I think we’ve identified these, uh, these, uh, the the potential to get hacked or the security mountain almost seems a little bit insurmountable. So what, let’s talk about AI, what does it bring into the mix.

Yashmita 20:21
So the whole point of AI, as you know, is to not take over, but to help humans or supplement in any sort of repeatable tasks, hopefully, I mean, we’re gonna start talking about AI ethics, which is another whole nother topic. But that’s what it’s supposed to do. So if you think about what a security analyst typically needs to do, and considering that we have a 3 million ran 3 million shortage worldwide, it means that an AI engine can basically take over the need to constantly be watching the networks. And that’s what it brings into the picture. You have a very smart machine that’s constantly trolling your networks, looking at all your endpoint devices, and finding those vulnerabilities. The tools that we employ actually do the penetration testing, and then tell you what, what needs to be done to fix it. So regular basis of is constantly 24 724 by seven 365 days a year. That’s what the job of the AI is to constantly be monitoring. And because remember, as soon as we find something, there’s a hacker on the dark web that’s developed something new. Great, yeah, great. So in order for us to keep up with that constant development of new Trojan horses, you need an AI to to, to, to stop that, or at least to find it, I don’t think we’ll ever stop it, honestly speaking, yeah. But at least to find it much quicker. And I think it speaks to that stat about it takes 287 days to typically find in container data breach is now the time what AI does, it significantly reduces that time to find that data breach to probably less than a week as soon as it understands your security posture. The other thing the the AI engine does is you’ve given as a security analyst, you’ve given it a you you have a certain mandate. This is Yakko show And my job is to look at any vulnerabilities at unbundled dot 0.0. But you need an engine. So you may have an E commerce platform linked to your to your website. And your security analyst is not going to say let me go in now look at how my integration, this ecommerce platform is going to harm us because this is what’s happened before there was there’s a case of an e commerce Store. The engine basically said okay, it understood that it was an E commerce platform, but we didn’t tell it it was it was such and it is it because it’s an ecommerce platform, they must be in a payment sort of payment gateway link to it, it then decided, let me go and see if I can buy goods on this ecommerce platform. And it was stopped by whatever measures were put in place, you know, and then it said, Wait a minute, let me now go in understand how this payment gateway works. So it goes it went in read up on the internet, everything it could find and it figured out that there was a certain number that needed to be passed back to the ecommerce platform in order to buy the goods. And he did that. And then it ended up buying goods not a person, an AI machine bought goods. So the power of the AI is it goes also beyond your mandate, it looks at third party integration to just what you’ve been given. Think about the 38. It mostly government departments that have been hacked in August in South Africa. It started with Transnet. And then it went on to justice, but because justice is linked to so many departments in the security cluster, all of them were affected as well. So that’s the whole point of the AI to make sure that your entire landscape is is is overseen

Jaco 24:18
And that and that’s where we this artificial, you know, the AI I think we can almost call it it’s almost like a virtual person. But the beauty around that is it doesn’t need to race so it can sit there 24/7 And just try and and we know when human humans have to do repetitive tasks, even insecurity. At some point in time we learned some form of pattern and there’s going to be gaps where the AI can’t get complacent or lazy. It’ll it’ll keep on looking at everything.

Yashmita 24:51
And it’s also the rate at which it’s it’s learning. So you and I especially at the age we are at we probably learns very slowly But but an AI engine learns constantly, it’s constantly taking on information, upholding hypothesis and then building a solution around the hypothesis. So that’s the other thing that it learns very quickly. And then it both solutions around it’s learning. And I

Jaco 25:21
Think for me, again, the thing is in large organizations, you know, I want to make a decision on the type of technology or whatever, and then I don’t want change, you know, we want to put it in and leave it but like you said, you know, the game moves so fast. If I’m in a small business, and I entrust my environment to some form of IT guy, it’s like you say, you know, you spread so thin, Gainey learn quickly enough to know what so so for me, and I said often, in a in a in a small little small medium enterprise space. People manage by crisis, not not by prevention, if you want to call it that. So I love the fact that all of a sudden, because it’s a machine, we now democratize this high level security technology that’s normally available to the to the guys with very, very

Yashmita 26:14
Deep pockets. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Second

Jaco 26:17
Last question. I want to ask you, so if I’m now sitting in my accounting firm, and I listen to this, and and I understand risk, and I don’t want to I don’t understand any of the technology stuff. But I understand risk. And I’ve no, I think I’m I need this, where do I start?

Yashmita 26:36
Sat with me? Alright. I think there is a plethora of tools out there. But because you you’ve just made the point about not understanding, you don’t want something, we you need to do the monitoring, you don’t want something where you need to run continuous updates. You also don’t you also want something at the level that you are at as an SME level that’s affordable. You know, so if you look at the typical penetration testing contract you’re looking at, I’m talking dollar rates, now you’re talking, you’re looking at about $50,000 for every sort of penetration test that you do, and that’s four times a year. Right? That’s $200,000. Right for a year of penetration testing, and you still going to miss stuff? You still Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you, you actually need a very affordable 24/7 ai generated power tool that you can just put onto your network, both internal and external, and it runs constantly without you even worrying about it. And then it gives you automatically alerts. So if there’s an issue, and this tool should reduce false positives as much as possible, then you you alerted, you know, based on how well how often you want to alert considering it’s a small business, it shouldn’t be, it doesn’t have to be that often. But then you can get alerted whenever you want. And that’s really what you want, you want that to be taken care of, because you have to do what you need to do your core business.

Jaco 28:08
Do you wanna you, you know, if I can sort of regurgitate some of the words that we’ve used earlier. You want to seize what we what the state of your network is at the moment? And I think, have you ever done an assessment for a customer and found nothing?

Yashmita 28:25
No, yeah. So we recently did an assessment for a large financial institution, and with hundreds of tools that they have available hundreds of tools, and I almost saw it is a challenge as well, because I knew this, this corporate head, every possible tool that they could have in the most advanced as well. And we found a vulnerability. And it was a system that they had forgotten about that was still exposed to the internet and one DDoS and it was gone. So Bayes, I, I would like to take on that path. But I don’t think there’ll be any any company out there that we will not find a vulnerability on. And I think it’s also bringing us to the point of what zero trust is, you know, there’s a whole talk about what zero trust and zero trust is, although it sounds very bad. It’s basically not trusting anybody internal or external. It’s basically a security architecture that says, whether you are internal or external, you must be authenticated in some way. So if I think about a small business, for internal people, a small business must make sure that they have multi factor authentication for whatever they want to do inside, you know, fingerprint, passwords, whatever it is, but multi factor authentication is a layer that you can at least put, in cases a small business, education and training is another really big thing because it takes away the whole social engineering thing. A tool that can take away the need for you You too have to constantly be watching your network, you know, at least an AI power generated to in some sort of like a DR needs to be put in place, you know, as SMMEs. We forget that when we lose our data, where does it go?

Jaco 30:13
What is the alter? Just for

Yashmita 30:17
This disaster recovery? If I lose my data year, where am I going to find it? Is it somewhere in the cloud? Is it on some other device? I mean, I was speaking to a legal firm the other day, and they weren’t to do a SharePoint implementation. So I said, okay, cool. Where are your files? Oh, it’s just on that external hard drive sitting in somebody’s straw.

Jaco 30:36
Yeah, yeah. So a lot of that a lot.

Yashmita 30:39
A lot. I’ve been to government departments, we serve a certain fridges in kitchens.

Jaco 30:45
Yeah, yeah. And to me, it comes back to again, everybody, while we were joking about it earlier, but about Africa. But everybody in South Africa understands. Before I go to bed at night, I’m going to close my windows and lock my doors. And, you know, if you have an alarm, switch it on or whatever, everybody understands that they’re not going to leave the front door open. I think because small businesses think it’s only big guys. It’s going to get act, you know, they a bit more Lexa Daisy about it. But it applies to everybody. And and I think what, what the technology that you’re talking about is brought to to the forefront is it’s now it’s now accessible, and relatively easy for number one, for us to understand what is the state of my environment? And sometimes, you know, just that mere thought, I think sometimes leads people just fall through the net our account. Yeah, I’m gonna get such a big skirt. Yeah, I’m not I don’t know. And in any, like you said in, put it on, because because what we ultimately want to do we want peace of mind on an ongoing basis these days, something or something looking off to me?

Yashmita 31:55
Yes, exactly. And SMM is particularly I mean, you don’t have lots of cash sitting around as well, your cash flow is a big issue in an SME. And so if you do lose data and information, think about the impact it has on you as a business, you know, typically, especially now over the last few years with the virus, more and more small businesses are struggling to keep pace. Now you go in lose your data, and you have to get cash to come in, you know, to try and get yourself back on your feet any day lost in the life of an SME is potentially loss of, of a client. So you’ve got to think about the impact that not protecting your assets, have your security assets and your network has on your business, it becomes a business imperative. If you think about King and governance now. Security Papi, anything that related was never even thought about before. And now it’s at a board level and you discuss it, you discuss a security, you discuss cybersecurity, discuss data breaches, and so at board level, so it becomes a business imperative.

Jaco 32:59
I always say, every business understands the money that sits in petty cash, and you can count it, and you can see if it balances or not. And data is almost that data is almost similar, because if it gets stolen, it’s gonna cost you money, it’s gonna impact the business, it can kill it. Thank you very much for that. I’ve got a I’ve got an unrelated related question. But you’re I think, for the, for the IR in the security component, I think we were a lovely discussion. When I ask you one last question. Because of your the passion and what it is that you guys do, what is this take for for good initiative that that you are running?

Yashmita 33:36
Okay, so we have a foundation that we support, it’s actually it was founded in my daughter’s name, my daughter has special needs, she has Down syndrome. And since she’s been born, my biggest driver has been how do we bring in or develop technology that can enable kids with special needs, but then it grew into other things, enabling children in in totality with with digital skills. So the Tech for Good is one of it is enablement of kids at a basic education level with our tech skills. And we do this in partnership with a company in Cape Town that develop IoT devices. And what what we do with the devices is almost like a Lego kit. We give it to schools, and they were able to build IoT enabled devices like a soil measuring device or atmospheric measuring device, one of those devices has actually gone into space as well. And then it teaches the kids a basic programming language, and focusing obviously on kids and schools that are in areas that are underprivileged.

Jaco 34:44
I love that. And I mean, you know, we spoke about sme’s. I mean, one of the one of the things that we’re not short of is probably probably people and ideas. And it take ism is a mechanism for us to make that exportable. So Yeah, I love that idea. And I

Yashmita 35:01
Firmly believe we are. I’m sure you have the same sentiment as me. You know, we often think that we need to look outside the boundaries of South Africa for talent. But I firmly believe that we have talent in South Africa, we just need to nurture it. I constantly tell my sons that the cure for cancer is sitting in a kid in a rural hut somewhere in South Africa, and I firmly believe that so I as as Nika and as the foundation, we feel like our job is to find those, those hidden talents somewhere in South Africa and nurture it.

Jaco 35:33
I love that. Thank you very much for that. Thanks. Yeah. Thanks for listening to unbundled brought to you by catalytic, a series that aims to demystify technology so that you can make smarter decisions for your business. Remember, you can listen to all of the podcasts on Cliff central Apple website, and in for added convenience, you can subscribe to Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google, or wherever you listen. And if you’re looking for help or more information around communications tools for your business, make sure to visit


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The Nihka Technology Group is a South African technology company based in Johannesburg, South Africa. The Group is focused on bringing the digital future to both the private and public sectors, locally and globally by delivering innovative, integrated technologies and intelligent solutions. Nihka offers end-to-end multi-dimensional consulting with an emphasis on integrating the human potential. Bringing EQ into AI.